Two Comments

Here is a comment and my response on Trevor's blog. I know that we may be talking past each other, but am I making sense?

dave said...
I don't mean to step on Trevor's toes with this as I have sort of jumped in on the conversation, but I just have to make a comment in regards to adam's comment. First, I would agree that Christianity, the way, is the Gospel of grace. I am one who believes that we, as humans, are limited, born missing something, and, because of that, are flawed. While a significant part of our creator does exist within us we are missing that intimate connection with him. In my view, based on scripture (both the words and the meaning), this is heaven. Based on my experience and simple observation, this is what our souls long for, intimacy with our creator. A lot of different religions are striving for this, in lots of different ways. The way of Christ is to offer that connection through himself. Through him we are given that intimate connection with God, and then we go through our journey seeking to understand that relationship and that grace. I am one who usually believes Christ is who he said he was. I am also one who thinks that there are still many ways to get to God. Some require adherance to a moral code, others require observing specific rituals and traditions, following Christ requires leaning on him, the imitation of him follows as a result. I don't think we have to even understand fully who he is, and doubting him is normal and expected. But leaning on him, and pursuing him is the key. This is how I see it. As always, I may be wrong.
But, contrary to what Adam suggests about the church and teaching the following of a moral code:
That is precisely what the church in America is teaching today, and has been for centuries. Even if a preacher doesn't get up and say that "salvation" for lack of a better term, requires grace and then living "right" that is definately the message the church gets across (and many preachers do say exactly that). This is based on a lifetime of research. I grew up in protestant church and throughout my life have been in various places in various churches, catholic, charismatic, and protestant. I see it running through all kinds of christian literature and through the jargon that church people speak. So, to claim that the church preaches grace and not a moral code is just not true. If you will look a little closer at church history you will see that this conflict has been a consistent thread through christianity from the first century. Paul had to contend with trying to teach grace while the Jerusalem church wanted that gospel to include living according to the Hebrew moral code. That trend continues today as the church is quick to quote that we are "saved by grace, through faith" but then makes sure to include that we shouldn't smoke, drink, or cuss (along with the other outwardly measurable things the "good christian folk" like to keep on the list of why they are better than the rest of the world). I'll have to cut this thought short, but I am thinking I will be posting something along this vein on my blog soon as it is a pet peeve, and it is something I am always trying to understand better.
I'll leave the rest of the arguement with Trevor as I have probably put in more of my opinion that is neccessary here. He and I may differ a bit on some of the finer points regarding human nature and grace, but maybe not. Regardless, different views are all part of the journey we are on and as soon as we quit learning and being challenged to explore then we may as well be dead.
Thanks for the opportunity to think out loud.

1:10 PM


Dan Price said...
Actually, I see Adam saying the exact opposite of that. He says that it is wrong-headed to think that we find salvation through the moral code of religious texts. Instead we find salvation from God's grace through faith. By following "the way" that is really a works-based salvation. As far as there being moral teaching in the Bible, who will argue that there isn't? But I don't think that Adam is saying that we must follow these moral teachings to reach heaven. Instead we follow these moral teachings because we love God and want to be more than just "saved" we want to be followers of Christ. Am I making any sense?

1:28 PM